META: Star Trekonomics
May. 24th, 2010 12:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Hello loves! This is going to be something between a rational explanation and a rant. If someone reading this fears that this might be about them and their fanfiction specifically, NO, it's not. I've seen this is so many fanfics... almost ALL the fanfics that even mention anything related to money, cost, income, paychecks, or anything economic... that this applies to almost everyone who is writing Star Trek fanfic but who doesn't have a life-long grounding in Star Trek philosophy.
Here are a few things you need to know about economics CANON in Star Trek. This isn't a judgment call, nor a decree of whether it's the right way or the wrong way to structure an economy. I'm NOT telling you that this is the way the future WILL be or SHOULD be. I'm not even saying that this would ever work. No, this is just telling you how it is in CANON:
Capitalism is dead. That's right - on Earth, in the very least, in Star Trek canon, Capitalism is DEAD. This is a post-scarcity society. Nobody hungers, nobody goes without the basic necessities. And yes, it's pure socialism. That's canon.
BUT! I hear you scream, they use credits! That's money!
BZZZZT! Wrong. Credits are not money in a capitalistic sense. They can't accumulate wealth. They can't amass interest. They're not used for necessities like food, clothing, and shelter. "Credits" are a system based on the Federation's trade agreements with other planets, so that they can barter and "purchase" things directly from other societies. In other words, for those societies that still use money, the Federation (which has abundance of goods) uses itself as collateral for its citizens (not just humans) to exchange goods and services.
Then who does the shit work?
Menial tasks are automated. Yep! All the boring stuff is done for you. Yay technology! And that frees sentient beings to take on the true challenges - science, art, exploration, creativity, self-improvement, and the improvement of society. You are now free to tend a 200-year old vineyard and decant the perfect wine (like Picard's uncle). You are now free to have the log cabin in the woods and raise horses (like Kirk). You are free to pursue the next great discovery in medicine without having to worry about grant money, supply shortage, or college loans! You can move to a farming colony for an "old-fashioned" life. You can design the next great innovation in trans-warp travel for the sheer joy of seeing IF YOU CAN! You can do what you want with your life, and make it your own. Those who join Starfleet don't do it because they're poor and need to "enlist" in the military. They do it because they have a passion for exploration, discovery, and adventure... and it's hard as hell to get in.
Then what's the point of living? you might ask. Or doing anything productive?
Uh... maybe because you like what you do? If the only point of living you can imagine is the acquisition of wealth and mere subsistence, and you can't imagine working unless you HAVE TO, then you really can't understand the Star Trek universe. Do you mean to tell me that if someone was going to feed you, put a roof over your head, and give you all the basics, you'd just sit in your house and never see the light of day? You'd do NOTHING in the interest of self-improvement? Or the improvement of society? No creative ventures? You wouldn't pursue the arts? Sciences? Anthropology? History? You would have NOTHING to do in life if you didn't have to work to feed yourself? Damn, that's sad.
And fuck, if you're reading this, you're probably part of fandom, and it's very likely that you've read some of my fanfiction. Think about this for just a moment, would ya? WHY do we write fanfiction? We don't get paid. The only return we get is the applause and recognition of our peers if we write something good. No profit, no revenue. We do it because we love it, right? For the thrill of creating something new, telling a story, expressing an idea.
Competition still exists in Star Trek canon - the determination to learn something new, to accomplish, to create, be the first one to try something, to boldly go where no one has gone before. Yeah, That's what the future society of Star Trek values - the constant quest for self-improvement and societal-improvement.
Seriously, you're saying you'd keep working if you didn't have to?
You bet your ass. In fact, if money was no object, I would have gone to med school - a far more labor-intensive endeavor than my current occupation as a biologist working in safety at a research hospital. I wouldn't care about making money. As long as my needs were met, I'd WANT to work in research, cure diseases, heal the sick, and so on. Why the heck am I staying in my current job? Because I need health insurance and steady income right now, and in this fucked-up economy based around scarcity, my primary concern is ME.
So I'm assuming there's still competition though, ya know, to get into med school, or Starfleet, or any of those things. What do the non-genius types do?
You know, one of my other dreams was to create a greenhouse and tea shop with a reading room. I've also wanted to make my own wine. Or fancy cheese from goats that I'd raise myself. I used to work with horses (had my own for a while), and I'd love to train horses again. I love to cook - maybe I'd be a chef.
And then there's my wife - she'd love to costume and do old-fashioned seamstress and tailoring work. She likes brewing wine, too. And while I haven't interrogated her about her personal ambitions (money aside), I'm sure she's got things she'd like to do if money were no object.
Then how the fuck do they maintain society if everyone gets to do whatever the hell they want?
This post is about Trekonomics, not government, but in short... if you want to wrap your head around Star Trek canon, you have to accept the fact that this is an improved society. This is a society that went through a war that literally almost destroyed the planet. This is a society of people whose ancestors learned their lessons for them, and they're not about to regress. This is a society where people have personal ambitions, and a sense of order. A world government and socialism... ooooh, all that stuff that scares the crap out of right-wing religious fundamentalists. Seriously, it's amazing that any conservatives like Star Trek, but they do. They must not realize what they're watching.
Wait a minute, then what about the ranks in Starfleet? Doesn't the Captain get better accommodations than an Ensign?
Yes, and with privilege comes responsibility, and privilege only comes from hard work IF you want to work your way up the ranks. Rank doesn't make you more valuable as a human being. You don't "earn" more, although you do get bigger quarters. And you earn your way up... NOT for the money, but for the prestige, and for the sheer exhilaration of leadership and accomplishment. I got out of the Army due to an injury just a few months before I made the rank of Captain. I seriously want to go back in just to achieve that rank. It has nothing to do with the money, even though I would have had a pay raise. I wanted to achieve it.
Oh come on, there's capitalism in Star Trek. Haven't you seen the Ferengi?
Yes, and see how they're viewed by members of the Federation? And when the Federation deals with trade, whether or not the Ferengi are involved, the purpose is to acquire materials NOT for profit, but for the continued pursuit of knowledge, exploration, discovery, and self-improvement. If a Federation trade deal acquires some dilithium, nobody makes a personal profit, but perhaps Starfleet can power some new space ships for deep space exploration and discover something entirely new about the nature of the universe.
I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my brain around this shit. You can't tell me that a society can function without money.
Well, you may be right. I'm NOT saying that this is how it WILL be, or SHOULD be. As I already tried to make abundantly clear, this is JUST a matter of establishing what is known of economics in Star Trek canon. And bear in mind how different of a future this would be. You and I have NEVER lived in a society without scarcity of goods and resources. It's kinda hard to imagine a system that assumes a completely different society structure and set of social values. However, Gene Roddenberry did, and this is his universe. We're playing in the sandbox that he created, and this is what he gave us.
If you want to brush aside canon when you write, go ahead, but please BE AWARE OF IT! Understand what's canon, and realize that certain things we take for granted in 21st century Earth do not apply to Star Trek canon.
Here are some things that should NEVER be said or implied in a Star Trek fanfiction if you're sticking to canon:
1. Starfleet's "budget."
2. Any reference to a person's income or paycheck. Or alimony. Likewise, saving for retirement. Why do you think there are 100+ year old people in Starfleet? I'm sure they COULD retire, but if they love what they do, why should they stop?
3. The "cost" of repairs. (The limiting factors should be listed as "time" and "resources," and the limited resources should be things that are known to be limited in canon, like dilithium.)
4. Talking about people being "poor" or starving on Earth. (Tarsus IV was a disaster of extenuating circumstances.)
5. Any mention of people being unable to afford basic things like food, clothing, shelter, or medical care. (That doesn't mean that people like a young James T. Kirk wouldn't avoid going to a doctor out of sheer stubbornness.)
6. Competition for profit, unless you're talking about a Ferengi. (Now, people will compete for opportunities, prestige, and so on. If you've got, for example, four groups of engineers trying to design a new shield for space ships, they might compete to have their design accepted by Starfleet. That would be canon-compliant. However, a "lucrative" contract is not.)
7. Credits being used for essential things. And no, booze is not "essential," so using credits to buy drinks at a bar is within canon.
However:
1. People still have personal possessions. This is a socialistic society, not a communistic society. It's just that the focus has shifted away from the accumulation of WEALTH. Restoring an antique car for the joy of it? Within canon. Accumulating 100 cars just so you can re-sell them for profit? Not within canon, and that mentality wouldn't be understood by a person of 23rd-century Earth in Star Trek canon.
2. "Menial" is re-defined. Remember Boothby from TNG? The old groundskeeper at the Academy? He loved his plants, and despite the fact that he wasn't faculty, he was highly respected. Maybe we should re-think the concept of "menial labor" ourselves.
3. Maybe some people aren't "productive" by our current standards... but who said they have to be? Tell me how to put a price tag on a painting.
So... there it is. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with the philosophy, but if you're going to write Star Trek fanfiction, you need to be aware that you're NOT dealing with a capitalistic economics system. Love it or hate it, accept it or debate it - whatever you want. But just be aware that in Gene Roddenberry's universe, this is the way the chips fall.
Now, that's not to say there aren't inconsistencies. There's a lovely list of those inconsistencies to be found here:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/economy.htm
But still... realize that almost none of the contradictions are found on Earth itself. And none of these things involve the price of essential needs.
I'll leave you with this: Live long and prosper. NOW... debate to yourself what "prosper" might actually mean in Vulcan society.
Here are a few things you need to know about economics CANON in Star Trek. This isn't a judgment call, nor a decree of whether it's the right way or the wrong way to structure an economy. I'm NOT telling you that this is the way the future WILL be or SHOULD be. I'm not even saying that this would ever work. No, this is just telling you how it is in CANON:
Capitalism is dead. That's right - on Earth, in the very least, in Star Trek canon, Capitalism is DEAD. This is a post-scarcity society. Nobody hungers, nobody goes without the basic necessities. And yes, it's pure socialism. That's canon.
BUT! I hear you scream, they use credits! That's money!
BZZZZT! Wrong. Credits are not money in a capitalistic sense. They can't accumulate wealth. They can't amass interest. They're not used for necessities like food, clothing, and shelter. "Credits" are a system based on the Federation's trade agreements with other planets, so that they can barter and "purchase" things directly from other societies. In other words, for those societies that still use money, the Federation (which has abundance of goods) uses itself as collateral for its citizens (not just humans) to exchange goods and services.
Then who does the shit work?
Menial tasks are automated. Yep! All the boring stuff is done for you. Yay technology! And that frees sentient beings to take on the true challenges - science, art, exploration, creativity, self-improvement, and the improvement of society. You are now free to tend a 200-year old vineyard and decant the perfect wine (like Picard's uncle). You are now free to have the log cabin in the woods and raise horses (like Kirk). You are free to pursue the next great discovery in medicine without having to worry about grant money, supply shortage, or college loans! You can move to a farming colony for an "old-fashioned" life. You can design the next great innovation in trans-warp travel for the sheer joy of seeing IF YOU CAN! You can do what you want with your life, and make it your own. Those who join Starfleet don't do it because they're poor and need to "enlist" in the military. They do it because they have a passion for exploration, discovery, and adventure... and it's hard as hell to get in.
Then what's the point of living? you might ask. Or doing anything productive?
Uh... maybe because you like what you do? If the only point of living you can imagine is the acquisition of wealth and mere subsistence, and you can't imagine working unless you HAVE TO, then you really can't understand the Star Trek universe. Do you mean to tell me that if someone was going to feed you, put a roof over your head, and give you all the basics, you'd just sit in your house and never see the light of day? You'd do NOTHING in the interest of self-improvement? Or the improvement of society? No creative ventures? You wouldn't pursue the arts? Sciences? Anthropology? History? You would have NOTHING to do in life if you didn't have to work to feed yourself? Damn, that's sad.
And fuck, if you're reading this, you're probably part of fandom, and it's very likely that you've read some of my fanfiction. Think about this for just a moment, would ya? WHY do we write fanfiction? We don't get paid. The only return we get is the applause and recognition of our peers if we write something good. No profit, no revenue. We do it because we love it, right? For the thrill of creating something new, telling a story, expressing an idea.
Competition still exists in Star Trek canon - the determination to learn something new, to accomplish, to create, be the first one to try something, to boldly go where no one has gone before. Yeah, That's what the future society of Star Trek values - the constant quest for self-improvement and societal-improvement.
Seriously, you're saying you'd keep working if you didn't have to?
You bet your ass. In fact, if money was no object, I would have gone to med school - a far more labor-intensive endeavor than my current occupation as a biologist working in safety at a research hospital. I wouldn't care about making money. As long as my needs were met, I'd WANT to work in research, cure diseases, heal the sick, and so on. Why the heck am I staying in my current job? Because I need health insurance and steady income right now, and in this fucked-up economy based around scarcity, my primary concern is ME.
So I'm assuming there's still competition though, ya know, to get into med school, or Starfleet, or any of those things. What do the non-genius types do?
You know, one of my other dreams was to create a greenhouse and tea shop with a reading room. I've also wanted to make my own wine. Or fancy cheese from goats that I'd raise myself. I used to work with horses (had my own for a while), and I'd love to train horses again. I love to cook - maybe I'd be a chef.
And then there's my wife - she'd love to costume and do old-fashioned seamstress and tailoring work. She likes brewing wine, too. And while I haven't interrogated her about her personal ambitions (money aside), I'm sure she's got things she'd like to do if money were no object.
Then how the fuck do they maintain society if everyone gets to do whatever the hell they want?
This post is about Trekonomics, not government, but in short... if you want to wrap your head around Star Trek canon, you have to accept the fact that this is an improved society. This is a society that went through a war that literally almost destroyed the planet. This is a society of people whose ancestors learned their lessons for them, and they're not about to regress. This is a society where people have personal ambitions, and a sense of order. A world government and socialism... ooooh, all that stuff that scares the crap out of right-wing religious fundamentalists. Seriously, it's amazing that any conservatives like Star Trek, but they do. They must not realize what they're watching.
Wait a minute, then what about the ranks in Starfleet? Doesn't the Captain get better accommodations than an Ensign?
Yes, and with privilege comes responsibility, and privilege only comes from hard work IF you want to work your way up the ranks. Rank doesn't make you more valuable as a human being. You don't "earn" more, although you do get bigger quarters. And you earn your way up... NOT for the money, but for the prestige, and for the sheer exhilaration of leadership and accomplishment. I got out of the Army due to an injury just a few months before I made the rank of Captain. I seriously want to go back in just to achieve that rank. It has nothing to do with the money, even though I would have had a pay raise. I wanted to achieve it.
Oh come on, there's capitalism in Star Trek. Haven't you seen the Ferengi?
Yes, and see how they're viewed by members of the Federation? And when the Federation deals with trade, whether or not the Ferengi are involved, the purpose is to acquire materials NOT for profit, but for the continued pursuit of knowledge, exploration, discovery, and self-improvement. If a Federation trade deal acquires some dilithium, nobody makes a personal profit, but perhaps Starfleet can power some new space ships for deep space exploration and discover something entirely new about the nature of the universe.
I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my brain around this shit. You can't tell me that a society can function without money.
Well, you may be right. I'm NOT saying that this is how it WILL be, or SHOULD be. As I already tried to make abundantly clear, this is JUST a matter of establishing what is known of economics in Star Trek canon. And bear in mind how different of a future this would be. You and I have NEVER lived in a society without scarcity of goods and resources. It's kinda hard to imagine a system that assumes a completely different society structure and set of social values. However, Gene Roddenberry did, and this is his universe. We're playing in the sandbox that he created, and this is what he gave us.
If you want to brush aside canon when you write, go ahead, but please BE AWARE OF IT! Understand what's canon, and realize that certain things we take for granted in 21st century Earth do not apply to Star Trek canon.
Here are some things that should NEVER be said or implied in a Star Trek fanfiction if you're sticking to canon:
1. Starfleet's "budget."
2. Any reference to a person's income or paycheck. Or alimony. Likewise, saving for retirement. Why do you think there are 100+ year old people in Starfleet? I'm sure they COULD retire, but if they love what they do, why should they stop?
3. The "cost" of repairs. (The limiting factors should be listed as "time" and "resources," and the limited resources should be things that are known to be limited in canon, like dilithium.)
4. Talking about people being "poor" or starving on Earth. (Tarsus IV was a disaster of extenuating circumstances.)
5. Any mention of people being unable to afford basic things like food, clothing, shelter, or medical care. (That doesn't mean that people like a young James T. Kirk wouldn't avoid going to a doctor out of sheer stubbornness.)
6. Competition for profit, unless you're talking about a Ferengi. (Now, people will compete for opportunities, prestige, and so on. If you've got, for example, four groups of engineers trying to design a new shield for space ships, they might compete to have their design accepted by Starfleet. That would be canon-compliant. However, a "lucrative" contract is not.)
7. Credits being used for essential things. And no, booze is not "essential," so using credits to buy drinks at a bar is within canon.
However:
1. People still have personal possessions. This is a socialistic society, not a communistic society. It's just that the focus has shifted away from the accumulation of WEALTH. Restoring an antique car for the joy of it? Within canon. Accumulating 100 cars just so you can re-sell them for profit? Not within canon, and that mentality wouldn't be understood by a person of 23rd-century Earth in Star Trek canon.
2. "Menial" is re-defined. Remember Boothby from TNG? The old groundskeeper at the Academy? He loved his plants, and despite the fact that he wasn't faculty, he was highly respected. Maybe we should re-think the concept of "menial labor" ourselves.
3. Maybe some people aren't "productive" by our current standards... but who said they have to be? Tell me how to put a price tag on a painting.
So... there it is. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with the philosophy, but if you're going to write Star Trek fanfiction, you need to be aware that you're NOT dealing with a capitalistic economics system. Love it or hate it, accept it or debate it - whatever you want. But just be aware that in Gene Roddenberry's universe, this is the way the chips fall.
Now, that's not to say there aren't inconsistencies. There's a lovely list of those inconsistencies to be found here:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/economy.htm
But still... realize that almost none of the contradictions are found on Earth itself. And none of these things involve the price of essential needs.
I'll leave you with this: Live long and prosper. NOW... debate to yourself what "prosper" might actually mean in Vulcan society.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:26 pm (UTC)And like I said, I'm not saying that this economic philosophy is right or wrong. It's not a judgment call like that (although I do have my personal opinions). I'm just trying to explain canon Trekonomics so that people who are writing the fanfiction will have a clue.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:33 pm (UTC)Replicators are *awesome.*
If money weren't the point...I'd teach, and learn, and write, and edit and sew.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:42 pm (UTC)I read some of the original novels, but far more of the TNG novels. But still, I figured that anyone who really paid attention to Star Trek (TV or novels) beyond just the space battles and other transient story lines would have learned this stuff already.
(no subject)
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Date: 2010-05-24 05:46 pm (UTC)Thank you for this. I never really understand the concept of credits in a society without money, but it makes more sense to me now.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:47 pm (UTC)I think that there will still be a Starfleet "budget", but it doesn't mean the same as we think of it. "Post-Scarcity" doesn't mean that we have UNLIMITED resources... it just means we have MORE. We'll still have to allocate them. Which means they'll have SOME kind of budget, and something like "credits" to measure and keep track.
OR... it may have all been made up by a bunch of writers who really didn't care about economics, and just wanted to get the script done by deadline. ;-P
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 05:54 pm (UTC)In terms of certain things being finite - of course. Restrictions always exist. Time, distance... and some things can't be replicated. But when discussing a shortage of a resource in Star Trek canon, they wouldn't talk about not having enough money, or not having the budget for something. They'd talk directly about how long it will take to get the materials, how long it will take to do the work, and which resources are in short supply or unavailable.
And like I said... I never claimed it would work. Just talking about what canon would claim.
Says the space marine...
From:Re: Says the space marine...
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Date: 2010-05-24 05:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:08 pm (UTC)I like how this society is structured, but like you say - I have some issues with it, but I guess that's just the perspective of the backward 21st century human, right? :D ♥♥
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:16 pm (UTC)And don't worry - I wasn't talking about you. ♥
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:17 pm (UTC)But you know, sometimes it's just much more fun to have someone be able to BUY with credits or whatever something and play with that. Of course, that's the fun of writing and when I do something like that, in the massive epic co-written fic, it's just SO MUCH FUN. /is twelve
Honestly, I did and do have a hard time diverting from it. Ever feel like when you ignore or skirt something canon wise you get like a ZAP for typing it? lol
Fabulous fabulous post though and I hope your writing is going well!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:19 pm (UTC)Writing is going quite well! I'm about 17K words into my Big Bang Star Trek fic. You?
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:18 pm (UTC)(here via hughcasey)
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:29 pm (UTC)One thing I do wonder about is land use, since, to an extent, the surface area of the Earth is finite, and some will probably be set aside for non-human animals. Then again, with replicator technology, most of what is now farmland for staple crops could be re-proportioned. Since replicators could probably turn any biomass to food and any scrap into parts, near-perfect recycling of waste would only be a matter of adequate power. (And that's what anti-matter and fusion are for.)
You'd need a system for mediating disputes over things that were scarce (like 'this piece of land', or 'this antique car'), but, hell, the US has that -- we call it 'small claims court'.
(I'm also one of those people who does her job for love. Heck, one of my friends is trying to save up to go back to school study forensics because it fascinates her -- as an added bonus, Trek society would let her get the medical care she and her fiance need, and would be able to restore her hearing*. I'd love it if all my friends could be free to pursue their passions without having to worry about food or shelter or medical care.)
* She's going in to be evaluated for a cochlear implant this month. I'm wishing her luck.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:49 pm (UTC)And I'm sure a government and judicial structure would exist.
But yeah, being able to study a worthwhile academic pursuit without worrying about basic things like food and medical care... yeah, that would be awesome.
Good luck to your friend! I hope it goes well. :)
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:30 pm (UTC)...and I feel annoyed now, possibly because of the guilt for overly using the credit question in my current series...
..this said, my series is focused on relationship developments and I doubt I could change anything now for the future, so I just close my eyes and ignore all this, okay? *zooms out* :)
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:48 pm (UTC)Don't hate me?
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:41 pm (UTC)And wouldn't it be great to live like that now? Where you don't have to slave in a hated job just for the health benefits? Where you could go off and work for that favorite non-profit, or become a lawyer, or astronomer, without worry about how to get by?
Now, having said all that? It's still fun to deviate and write a different take on things, twist canon around, and see where it goes.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 06:59 pm (UTC)It would be wonderful to live like that now, but you know that people are incapable of really conceiving what it would take, and what it would mean.
I don't mind people twisting canon and going in different directions. Don't mind it at all. I just don't think people even KNOW what canon entails in a lot of cases. That's all.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 07:00 pm (UTC)I just want to say YES. Thank you so much for writing this!
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 07:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 07:35 pm (UTC)Ofcourse I also figure there is a federation currency as well, for use when dealing with various other races.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-24 07:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-05-25 02:14 am (UTC)Cause heck, my girlfriend wanted me to write this fic idea, and I did, even though I had to throw all this out the window for the premise to work. One of many reasons that fic is AU aside from the obvious.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 12:20 pm (UTC)Mind if I ask what you're writing? :D
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Date: 2010-05-25 07:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 12:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 07:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 12:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 10:30 am (UTC)Re. the last line: ooh, that's a good point. I'd assumed it meant "be healthy and happy." Well, not "happy," that wouldn't make sense for Vulcans. "Content," I guess?
Vulcans achieved this socialist, non-scarcity economy much earlier than Earth, right? So they don't have a concept of wealth either. But there seem to be some implications about class, like Spock's family being practically royalty (assuming we take as given that he's related to T'Pau, which isn't actually spelled out in canon but I think it's implied).
I read it as them having no wealth but having some rigid ideas about class and tradition, which is totally illogical but they're kind of hypocritical about that? It's hard to get the whole arranged marriage business and how they deal with Pon Farr to make sense otherwise. Like it seems to be really logical except individuals clearly don't always want to go along with it, otherwise there wouldn't be kal-if-fee. I think Vulcans don't place much value on individual life; it's the group that matters.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 12:31 pm (UTC)I think Vulcans value tradition as a way of maintaining the fabric of society. It IS logical to have an established system that causes things to run smoothly, and if that system has worked for thousands of years, it's basically illogical to fuck with it.
I don't know if I'd consider Spock's family "royalty," but I'd assume that those with high intelligence and capability combined with proper effort would achieve great status and respect (my concept of "prosper").
If Pon Farr is indeed a biological necessity for Vulcans, it is illogical for them to be so embarrassed over it... but tradition dictates that it's a "private" matter, therefore isolating those chaotic emotions from the main part of society with ritual and privacy makes sense.
Vulcan spirituality is another curious matter... to discuss when I've had more coffee.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 10:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 10:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-05-25 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 11:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 02:48 pm (UTC)I JUST SAW PICTURES FROM DH EPILOGUE AND BURST INTO TEARS.
THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW.
D':
no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 11:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-25 09:16 pm (UTC)I better not start about how it would be if I, or my siblings or friends (who are all busy with graduating and choosing what to do with their life) or whoever, didn't have to worry about this money. Every time I do, I only get frustrated and unhappy.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 11:52 am (UTC)Anyway, yeah. Just... yeah.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 06:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-05-26 11:51 am (UTC)I'm glad you like my canon-thumping posts though. :D
This is 99% bullshit, because my Trek knowledge is pretty limited.
Date: 2010-05-26 04:21 pm (UTC)Or maybe we're just seeing the small percentage of the populace that has strongly internalized protestant work ethic. Maybe the rest of the Federation is just sitting at home on their various planets drinking synthahol and playing Holodeck simulations while sucking on the replicator feed, and we just don't see that. :-P
Re: This is 99% bullshit, because my Trek knowledge is pretty limited.
Date: 2010-05-26 04:54 pm (UTC)Also, nobody starts at the top in Starfleet. To get the prestige, you have to earn your way up the food chain. So if you want your own ship, or to be the Chief of Engineering, or the top-dog Science Officer, you've got to start at the bottom.
Like I said... I don't even know if it would work. Lately, I haven't had enough faith in humanity for that. But this is just what Star Trek canon shows.
Re: This is 99% bullshit, because my Trek knowledge is pretty limited.
From:no subject
Date: 2010-06-05 02:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-05 04:24 pm (UTC)