Simple numbers for simple people...
Oct. 20th, 2010 10:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mijanI've heard people rant about the evils of "socialist" medicine - the high taxes, the long waits, etc.
Well, for any of my fellow Americans who have needed health care, you KNOW that the waits are pretty damned long around here. You've probably also experienced the ugly side of billing - that your insurance certainly NEVER covers everything, and that even with decent insurance, you're going to spend a small fortune.
But let's look at cost. Nothing but cost. Here's a REPORT from CNN Money:
"Employees' share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation."
So... our share of the insurance cost is rising, the actual insurance cost is rising, and simultaneously, our co-pays, co-insurance, and deductibles are also rising. In 2009, the average cost of healthcare, per capita, in the United States was $8,047. And as a nation, we spent 17.3% of our entire gross domestic product on health care! That's fucking INSANE.
Wow... Canada spent an average of $4,089 per capita in 2009 on health care. And that's TOTAL! Not "insurance"... TOTAL. And that's about 10% of their GDP.
Why is this so fucked up? Overhead, partially. Inefficiency, partially. Americans who don't take care of their own health, partially. But LARGELY because after the insurance premiums in America are paid... we keep paying. Oh yes. THROUGH THE FUCKING NOSE. Have you ever gotten sick? Gone to the ER? Gotten a bill in the mail for thousands of dollars? Had to take out a loan, set up a payment plan, or sell a possession to afford health care? Even with insurance, we keep paying. And paying. And paying. Co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles, and so on.
I've got damned good health insurance... for an American. I still pay $100 to go to the ER. $25 to see my PCP. $45 to see my rheumatologist, cardiologist, ophthalmologist, dermatologist, ob/gyn, and neurologist. Don't laugh - this shit could happen to anyone. I've always been an athlete and if most American ate a diet like mine, we'd solve the type-2 diabetes crisis and turn the heart disease statistics upside down. I don't smoke and I seldom drink. And I STILL got sick. And every time they say, "You need to have ___ checked by ____ specialist," there goes another $45, minimum.
So... for my insurance alone, I just found out that the base cost to my employer (who pays 95% of my premium) is $5,760 per year. That means if I NEVER get sick, I'm automatically costing $5,760 per year. Think about that. It's part of my employee benefits, so it's mine - and it means that I'm effectively shelling out that much before I even see a doctor. Wow folks, that's ALREADY over what Canadians spend per capita. My income is almost exactly average for an American. Oh, and of course, I pay taxes. My taxes cover all those people who can't pay for medical care because our economy sucks and people are losing their jobs or are under-employed. So on top of my premium, and all the co-pays and co-insurance and deductibles I pay, I'm also paying in taxes.
Right now, spending a direct, average amount of $4,089 sounds pretty damned CHEAP, doesn't it? And with longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality rates, that means the Canadian plan is more effective, too.
Oh, and when all is said and done... have any of you ever had to fight with an insurance company for approval, or a claim that got denied, or simply the filing process itself? Keeping track of all that paperwork can be pure hell, on top of already feeling like shit.
So why are we still trapped in our insurance-based system?
EDIT: I mis-read something in the CNN article, and I am changing a paragraph to reflect what I realize it actually meant.
EDIT AGAIN: Another objection I often see to UHC is about the right of the doctors to earn a profit. What's a profit, I ask? It's a paycheck, right? Adjusted for the exchange rate at the time this chart was posted, all based on 2005 data (recent enough for argument, as far as I'm concerned):
Well, for any of my fellow Americans who have needed health care, you KNOW that the waits are pretty damned long around here. You've probably also experienced the ugly side of billing - that your insurance certainly NEVER covers everything, and that even with decent insurance, you're going to spend a small fortune.
But let's look at cost. Nothing but cost. Here's a REPORT from CNN Money:
"Employees' share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation."
So... our share of the insurance cost is rising, the actual insurance cost is rising, and simultaneously, our co-pays, co-insurance, and deductibles are also rising. In 2009, the average cost of healthcare, per capita, in the United States was $8,047. And as a nation, we spent 17.3% of our entire gross domestic product on health care! That's fucking INSANE.
Wow... Canada spent an average of $4,089 per capita in 2009 on health care. And that's TOTAL! Not "insurance"... TOTAL. And that's about 10% of their GDP.
Why is this so fucked up? Overhead, partially. Inefficiency, partially. Americans who don't take care of their own health, partially. But LARGELY because after the insurance premiums in America are paid... we keep paying. Oh yes. THROUGH THE FUCKING NOSE. Have you ever gotten sick? Gone to the ER? Gotten a bill in the mail for thousands of dollars? Had to take out a loan, set up a payment plan, or sell a possession to afford health care? Even with insurance, we keep paying. And paying. And paying. Co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles, and so on.
I've got damned good health insurance... for an American. I still pay $100 to go to the ER. $25 to see my PCP. $45 to see my rheumatologist, cardiologist, ophthalmologist, dermatologist, ob/gyn, and neurologist. Don't laugh - this shit could happen to anyone. I've always been an athlete and if most American ate a diet like mine, we'd solve the type-2 diabetes crisis and turn the heart disease statistics upside down. I don't smoke and I seldom drink. And I STILL got sick. And every time they say, "You need to have ___ checked by ____ specialist," there goes another $45, minimum.
So... for my insurance alone, I just found out that the base cost to my employer (who pays 95% of my premium) is $5,760 per year. That means if I NEVER get sick, I'm automatically costing $5,760 per year. Think about that. It's part of my employee benefits, so it's mine - and it means that I'm effectively shelling out that much before I even see a doctor. Wow folks, that's ALREADY over what Canadians spend per capita. My income is almost exactly average for an American. Oh, and of course, I pay taxes. My taxes cover all those people who can't pay for medical care because our economy sucks and people are losing their jobs or are under-employed. So on top of my premium, and all the co-pays and co-insurance and deductibles I pay, I'm also paying in taxes.
Right now, spending a direct, average amount of $4,089 sounds pretty damned CHEAP, doesn't it? And with longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality rates, that means the Canadian plan is more effective, too.
Oh, and when all is said and done... have any of you ever had to fight with an insurance company for approval, or a claim that got denied, or simply the filing process itself? Keeping track of all that paperwork can be pure hell, on top of already feeling like shit.
So why are we still trapped in our insurance-based system?
EDIT: I mis-read something in the CNN article, and I am changing a paragraph to reflect what I realize it actually meant.
EDIT AGAIN: Another objection I often see to UHC is about the right of the doctors to earn a profit. What's a profit, I ask? It's a paycheck, right? Adjusted for the exchange rate at the time this chart was posted, all based on 2005 data (recent enough for argument, as far as I'm concerned):
| Specialty | US Average Salary | Canada Average Salary (n/1.212) |
| Family Medicine | $164,952 | $167,064 |
| Int. Medicine | $170,889/ $169,450 (hospitalist) | $248,721 |
| Ob/Gyn | $253,160 | $261,412 |
| Gen. Surgery | $278,433 | $247,375 |
| Anesthesia | $309,019 | $205,441 |
| Urology | $317,778 | $279,982 |
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no subject
Date: 2010-10-20 04:49 pm (UTC)There are tons of comparisons of quality of the Canadian system vs. the American system, and Canada WINS in almost EVERY CATEGORY. The only category where they don't beat the pants off the USA is in cancer treatment.
Trust me, there's a wealth of data out there - wait times, patient outcomes, accessibility of care, total cost.
While you wait and see, people are going bankrupt for their health care in the USA, or being turned away because they lack health insurance. How long do you want to wait? The data is already available.
Hi! Canadian here.
Date: 2010-10-20 05:43 pm (UTC)And here's Ontario: http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/en/tax/healthpremium/rates.html
As you can see, pretty cheap. The Medical Services Plan (MSP) provides the following benefits:
•medically required services provided by a physician enrolled with MSP;
•maternity care provided by a physician or a midwife ;
•medically required eye examinations provided by an ophthalmologist or optometrist;
•diagnostic services, including x-rays and laboratory services, provided at approved diagnostic facilities, when ordered by a registered physician, midwife, podiatrist, dental surgeon or oral surgeon;
•dental and oral surgery, when medically required to be performed in hospital*;
•orthodontic services related to severe congenital facial abnormalities.
The following are not automatically covered, or have limited coverage (by the Govt):
•Acupuncture;
•Chiropractic;
•Massage Therapy;
•Naturopathy;
•Physical Therapy; and
•Non-surgical Podiatry.
These are where your employment plans would kick in, or the like.
Is the system perfect? No.
Do people with non-life threatening conditions have to sometimes wait for services such as surgery? Yes. Can they bypass the wait and pay for private services, in Canada or elsewhere? Yes.
Is all surgery paid for? No. If you don't 'need' it, according to you doctor, you don't get it paid for. Examples of this would include plastic surgery that is cosmetic only.
Do you have to pay for your own prescriptions? Most of the time, unless you are on social assistance, are elderly, or have benefits from your employer, or a group plan that you pay extra for.
Exceptions to this rule are medications given in hospital - such as cancer treatments. However, you may have to pay for some home medications during the process.
I've been lucky to have never suffered major illness or injury, I've had the following (off the top of my head), in my lifetime, covered by MSP: tonsils removed, wisdom teeth removed, leg cast for dislocation, pneumonia a few times, migraine treatments, including neurologists, cat scans and mri's, many ER visits due to all of the above, annual & bi-annual check ups including specialists, and all blood tests, pap smears, et al. I had free eye exams until my mid 30's, now I have to pay and be reimbursed by my employer ($80 each, once every 2-4 years - I have perfect eyesight, so yay me). The young, old and medically necessary still get them for free, as do those on social assistance.
We've had some major medical conditions in my family, however, including Type-1 diabetes, heart conditions and cancers. No bills. Some costs associated, such as the diabetes glucose tests strips, though the insulin & pump is free/paid for by the government.
Anyways, as I always say, good luck to you all, hopefully the fear of the unknown loses the war over reason.
Re: Hi! Canadian here.
Date: 2010-10-20 06:01 pm (UTC)Just tell everyone who's arguing against it what you just told me, and maybe the USA will have intelligent health care before the next century.