mijan: (Kirk walks into a bar...)
[personal profile] mijan
Part of my worldview has just been shattered. 

I mean, it's not like I was unaware of this.  I saw the movie.  Four times.  Three times on IMAX.  I was intensely aware of the canon changes.  However... it never quite sank in... until [profile] fiona_fawkes  put it out there in simple, straightforward English.

Riverside, Iowa, the tiny town now fandom-famous for being the birthplace of James T. Kirk, can no longer claim that title.  Why?  Because canon has FUCKING CHANGED, GODDAMMIT, and Kirk was born in SPACE.  WHY?  For all that is good and holy in the world of sci-fi and Star Trek canon, WHY?

WHY???????

And what will become of Riverside, Iowa???

Date: 2009-07-29 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kei-rin.livejournal.com
He still grew up in Riverside, Iowa.... I'm pretty sure.... *is trying to be helpful*

Date: 2009-07-29 01:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
It helps... a little...

Date: 2009-07-29 01:25 am (UTC)
ext_14590: (Myrtle)
From: [identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com
Actually, that raises an interesting question about the whole issue. I'm not a die hard ST fan (sorry) so my understanding of canon is shakey, but if the intrusion of that ship was the first breach of the space/time continuum that deviates canon, then the whole issue of JK's birth is an error, because his mum was out there, and VERY pregnant, and even if that invasion hadn't happened, there's no way she would have been back on earth to give birth. Right?

*shakes head*

Or am I missing something?

Date: 2009-07-29 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kei-rin.livejournal.com
We don't know how far away they were from earth. I had just assumed (a danger I know but for lack of a better explanation) that they were on their way back to Earth and had the whole Narada going back in time thing not happened Jim would have been born in Iowa.

According to the book (which is never considered canon in any ST series) Winona went into labor prematurely because of the bouncing around the ship went through because of the Narada's attack. She was on some kinda labor suppressor or something (probably better then crossing her legs and hopping for the best).

Date: 2009-07-29 01:40 am (UTC)
ext_14590: (Default)
From: [identity profile] meredyth-13.livejournal.com
That makes sense. :D

Date: 2009-07-29 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pennswoods.livejournal.com
I didn't even think about this. But one timeline doesn't necessarily have to erase another. It can exist in parallel. Plus, Iowa was looking pretty cool as the site of the building of starships.

*♥ Iowa*

Date: 2009-07-29 01:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Actually, ships like the Enterprise should be built in the Utopia Planitia shipyard, orbiting Mars, which is another canon change that bothered me greatly.

Date: 2009-07-29 03:41 am (UTC)
ext_3038: Red Panda with the captain "Oh Hai!" (Default)
From: [identity profile] triadruid.livejournal.com
More importantly, Iowa Has No Fucking Canyons.

Date: 2009-07-29 03:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Actually, to their credit, it was a quarry, not a canyon. Take another look - it's clearly intentionally mined. It's a quarry.

But yeah, that had been my first reaction until I saw the scene again.

Date: 2009-07-29 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cedarrapidsgirl.livejournal.com
As a current Iowan, I am sure Riverside will be the birthplace of TOS!Kirk. I think the universes run parallel. And I would hope that he would be raised in Riverside, after his birth. And I'm just a tad drunk, so I'm not totally coherent. But I hope that Riverside would still be involved in the Kirk world, somehow.

Date: 2009-07-29 01:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
It will be. It has to be.

Date: 2009-07-29 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lurkitty.livejournal.com
I agree with you. Riverside, Iowa is still the birthplace of TOS!Kirk. TOS!Kirk still has a brother, and TOS!Spock's first command was the shuttlecraft Galileo. THere is a lot of canon that belongs to TOS that will remain with that series.

Date: 2009-07-29 02:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Abso-freakin'-lutely. :D

Date: 2009-07-29 01:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sgt-majorette.livejournal.com
Riverside, Iowa is the name of the nearest space station?

His mother is from RI and he thus has RI citizenship?

He was premature and Mum had reservations for the RI birthing center?

It's a Flint?

Anyway, you of all people should know that the movies aren't canon!

Date: 2009-07-29 02:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
But in Star Trek, the TV and movies ARE CANON! It's the books that are NOT considered to be absolute canon.

*flails*

Date: 2009-07-29 06:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sgt-majorette.livejournal.com
No, see, the TV show was the original, so these remade movies totally don't count. Books written from TV shows are a half-step up from fanfiction. In fact, the first fanfiction I ever read was in the Original Star Trek Era (why, yes, I am that old...) Roddenberry's widow approved it, and you could actually buy it in paperback. But that was before the Internet.

Therefore pilgrimages to Riverside, Iowa (any town in that state devout enough to rename itself counts) still carry plenary indulgences.

Date: 2009-07-29 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Therefore pilgrimages to Riverside, Iowa (any town in that state devout enough to rename itself counts) still carry plenary indulgences.

YAY!

Date: 2009-07-29 05:35 pm (UTC)
ext_3038: Red Panda with the captain "Oh Hai!" (wtf)
From: [identity profile] triadruid.livejournal.com
Whurrrr? Riverside has always* been named Riverside, they just laid claim to the "born in Iowa" tidbit.

* Post-1965, anyway

Date: 2009-07-29 02:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hdluff4eva.livejournal.com
Nothing.

NuKirk was born in space. TOS Kirk was still born in Iowa. So, in NuVerse, Riverside has no meaning, but in TOSVerse, it still does.

Date: 2009-07-29 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Yesh... I like this...

Date: 2009-07-29 03:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daddybear716.livejournal.com
You realize that this is exceedingly geeky? Even for you... :-)

Date: 2009-07-29 03:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
*scoffs*

I have not yet BEGUN to geek!

Date: 2009-07-29 04:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darkpoole.livejournal.com
Y'know, I spotted enough problems with the movie's background, even pre-timeshift, that I just slotted the entire thing into a parallel universe. The movie starts off in a parallel universe, gets jolted into a branch timeline, and none of it has any relevance to the "real" Trek canon.

So yeah, Kirk was born in Riverside, Iowa in the universe where Vulcan has no moon, Delta Vega is somewhere off in the outer rim, Starfleet builds its ships in space, and officers need to work their way up through the ranks before they get to command starships.

However, he was born in space in the universe where Delta Vega is a moon of Vulcan, where Starfleet builds starships deep in gravity wells, and where your first assignment out of the academy is to command the Federation's new flagship.

Date: 2009-07-29 04:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
I'm trying to think of these as parallel universes, existing in separate planes or something, where one's existence doesn't eliminate the other. It helps... because the canon fuck-ups make my brain hurt.

Date: 2009-07-29 04:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-hobbit.livejournal.com
I don't know but somehow to me it always felt as if the two universes would simply exist parallel to each other. Just becuase the timeline changed for XI, in my mind everything that happened in TOS and beyond will still happen... somewhere. Because anything other than that would just be too crazy and sad to even think about (and I love the new Trek with all my heart, but no way it can replace the original universe!)

Date: 2009-07-29 04:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
That's what I'm trying to remember right now. I mean, I know my wife is mocking me for this, but this a seriously MAJOR part of my childhood. It's part of my own personal mythology about the world, strange though that may seem. And I know it's fiction, but it's a fiction that means something to me. That's all.

And yes, I can think of them as parallel universes. It helps. Thank you.

Oh, and the gorgeous icons and headers you keep making help, too. I seriously want to use some of them, and I am jealous of your skill. I need to write more fic to make myself feel useful and vaguely important. You are Teh Awesome. Especially your "Do go where I can't follow" icon, with made me tear up a bit. May I use that one? The LotR reference combined with Kirk and Bones... so perfect.

Date: 2009-07-29 04:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blue-hobbit.livejournal.com
I guess Star Trek is in a way different from other worlds like LotR or Star Wars or even HP because it really could be part of this world, in the future. Makes it more real somehow... not that those other universes can't feel so real too, but in the end magic and far away galaxies and even possible ancient histories don't fit somehow in the way Star Trek does. It's so easy, especially as a kid to see Starfleet and all that and it just becomes real. I didn't get to see TOS until I was older myself, but I know that that's partially how my husband feel about... one big reason he can't come to terms with the new movie. I'll have to try the parallel universe idea with him, maybe that'll keep us from getting into arguments over Star Trek ;)
Oops, now I rambled too much. Sorry ^_^

And I'm really glad you like my graphics, thanks so much! But no way, if anyone should be jealous it's me! Writing is somuch harder, I wish I had the skill and patience to come up with awesome stories like you!
And of course you can use any and all of my graphics, it always makes me happy if people like and use them. The "Don't go where I can't follow" one is one of my favorite too... one of my favorite LotR scenes combined with my favorite Star Trek people, it just had be iconed :)

Date: 2009-07-29 06:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silentauror.livejournal.com
No, not at all! As others above said, this IS a parallel canon. It's like HP went back and Sorted Harry into Slytherin and then re-wrote the series. So then, no, he never would have been the Gryffindor Seeker, obviously. This is completely different. Remember, in the universe we knew before, Kirk grew up knowing his father, too! In that universe, he was still born there. Just think of it as AU fic - because that's exactly what this reboot deal is!

Date: 2009-07-29 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
*clings to this perspective*

Yesh...

*whimpers*

Date: 2009-07-29 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ruric.livejournal.com
The book makes it pretty clear that Winona went into premature labour due to the rough ride the Kelvin was getting because of the Narada attack. (The implication I am taking from that is that Jim would've been born at home in Iowa IF the Narada hadn't come back).

I'm pretty sure the book (I'd need to check but I think it was the book and not fanfic) also sets out that Riverside is where Kirk grew up and where the family home is, and is where the Enterprise is being built in the shipyard.

I'm sure there's a paragraph in there about the ship yard being outside Riverside because it's in the Midwest, good communication and transport routes, plenty of open space - so if something blows then cities doesn't get taken out and also space for farming/service communities to develop.

The way I look at it is that he might not have been *born* in Riverside but he sure as heck grew up there. Riverside is still HOME. *G*

Date: 2009-07-29 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] colloween.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] colloween votes this as the Yahoo Best Answer. :)

Date: 2009-07-29 05:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
You win.

*memorizes this post and interposes this perspective on all future viewings of this reboot universe*

Although I STILL can't accept them building the Enterprise ON EARTH. Utopia Planitia, DAMMIT! *pouts*

Date: 2009-07-29 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lunamazes.livejournal.com
The birth place of George Kirk??

Date: 2009-07-30 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lunamazes.livejournal.com
What! George Kirk is famous in the movie. LOL

Date: 2009-07-30 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
*facepalm*

[ O_o ]

Date: 2009-07-30 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/supes_/
yeah, that's seriously annoying. i'm not even a trek fan (yet?), and that annoys me. i don't know if there was some kind of reasoning for the change (and yeah, i suck for not having seen the movie yet), but it sounds just pointless and asinine.

probably the kind of thing i'd try to ignore, at best... :\


meanwhile, your mood icon totally confuses me. *stares some more*

Re: [ O_o ]

Date: 2009-07-30 05:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/supes_/
...on second thought, i like [livejournal.com profile] ruric's answer, too.

and now i am going to run away. before i get sucked into reading more long comment discussion of a fandom i virtually know nothing about. >_>

Re: [ O_o ]

Date: 2009-07-30 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
There *was* technically sorta kinda a reason, I suppose, and they did rationalize it, but it still didn't make sense to me. AU AU AU...

My mood icon? You mean my little ferret guy?

[ weird and/or stupid things ]

Date: 2009-07-31 07:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/supes_/
they did rationalize it, but it still didn't make sense to me

pfft. i'm sure i know the feeling.


it's not just the mood icon, it's that mood icon. the "shocked" one. i mean... why is his face rolling over like that? O.o

meanwhile, your mcgonagall userpic makes me happy. and i don't even know why.

Re: [ weird and/or stupid things ]

Date: 2009-07-31 08:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
*grins* The McGonagall user pic makes me very happy. I made it in response to a comment that Furiosity made. I was highly amused, and this icon was the result. And there's another person on my flist who speaks Russian. *sigh*

Date: 2009-07-30 06:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] digideus.livejournal.com
Actually, the new trek is in a different timeline to the original because of the changes caused by the red matter (at least thats the much held opinion on the net) This means Kirk could have actually been born in a dustbin, and in one alternative reality he probably was... Fucking Quantum Mechanics annoys me every time

Date: 2009-07-30 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
Quantum mechanics = LIES!!! All of it is LIES! That is, it's lies if it fucks with my Star Trek.

Date: 2010-01-24 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weavingthewind.livejournal.com
Wait a minute, and I might have this wrong, but if this an alternative to what happenened, wasn't the other Kirk still born in Riverside? The other reality/timeline still exists, doesn't it?

Date: 2010-01-25 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijan.livejournal.com
I know, I know... and I'm learning to accept that... but... *pouts*

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