mijan | Casting fail incident in The Hobbit.

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Casting fail incident in The Hobbit.

This is relevant to our interests:

(Taken directly from THIS article in Entertainment Weekly)
"A casting agent working on director Peter Jackson’s adaptation of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Hobbit was fired from the production after placing ads in a regional New Zealand newspaper seeking extras with “light skin tones,” according to Agence France-Presse."

The issue was brought to light when a woman of Pakistani heritage wanted to become a background extra as a Hobbit, and was told succinctly that they were only looking for (quote) "light-skinned people."

"...video footage shows the casting agent telling people at an audition, 'We are looking for light-skinned people. I’m not trying to be … whatever. It’s just the brief. You’ve got to look like a Hobbit.'" (So, the casting guy was caught directly on tape saying this. His words.)

And a more detailed article on Google news.

And on the Atlantic Wire.

This... shall be interesting. They're saying the casting agent was NOT told to discriminate by race, and he's been fired. I wonder - was he really acting on his own? Was he sacrificed for the PR? What were his instructions for casting? What does a Hobbit look like anyway? (Yes, we have the description from the books, which describes short folks with big feet and curly brown hair, but no specific racial indicators beyond that.) I wonder how fandom will react. Thoughts, anyone?

(Edited title to avoid misinterpretation.)

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What do you mean by curious? A racist asshat was fired for being a racist asshat. What's curious about that?

Curious as to how fandom will perceive the overall situation - was this a solitary racist asshat, or was he instructed to find light-skinned people and now the producers/directors are scrambling to cover their PR-tarnished asses? There's the obvious bullshittery and racism, but I wonder what happened behind the scenes. How much of this is backpedaling. Or was it really just one asswipe being an asswipe? I'm also curious about how the fans will react to the incident alone and to the franchise as a whole. Perhaps curious is the wrong word for a header.

Lemme rephrase the header.

Wait, what does it matter? Even if he was instructed to find light-skinned people, that the higher-ups still immediately realised that they've fucked up -- that's a good thing, considering what Racebending.com had to go through to even be noticed by the asshole casting director for the TLA movie.

It really doesn't matter to me if some dude is fired because he did a racist thing at his own discretion or because he's having to take the fall for a production company's fail. If he was personally anti-racist and ~forced into being racist by his bosses, bawwww~, what the fuck stopped him from going to Wingnut Prod and saying "dudes and dudettes, this is racist and wrong, so can I please do it another way?". If one complaint from a woman of colour was all it took for Wingnut to fire his ass, clearly it's the sort of company that is willing to consider these issues quickly -- whether sincerely or out of a desire to appear PC, it doesn't matter in this context.

Why is anyone supposed to give a shit about this guy's personal virtue? No matter what the background, what he did was racist. He could have chosen not to do it even if he'd been ~told by his superiors~; he didn't choose that.

There was definitely a very improved reaction time from the higher ups. And it's definitely being handled better than the Airbender racefail. I'm impressed that they responded to the incident this quickly. I also hope they end up casting the woman as a Hobbit extra, especially after she went through that.

I do think there's a difference of whether he was fired because he was following someone else's instructions, or if he was acting on his own judgment of what a Hobbit "should" look like. In casting, the agents ARE told what to look for, and their only job is to fill the request. Sometimes, ethnicity is part of what they're looking for in a casting call, so there's a chance he didn't even think it was odd because it's so common to head-hunt based on appearance. (It's Hollywood, after all - EVERYTHING is about appearance.) It's the nature of the job. He may have thought he had firmly in his mind what the directors were looking for, and was trying to fill it. I can honestly see why, IF he was following instructions, he might not have seen the inherent racism in the situation.

Ideally, instead of just turning the woman away, if he wasn't sure, he should have contacted the director/producer folks and asked for clarification, then challenged them if they told him "light-skinned only." Sadly, more people are inclined to just plow through and not think.

So if someone else told him what to look for, but then they pulled a PR stunt when someone took them to task on it... it's a different sort of problem in my eyes. And, of course, if he was acting completely on his own and adding his own racial restrictions to the casting instructions, THEN he got exactly what he deserved.

But with casting... it's really common to be hunting for a certain look, and race can be part of it. It's not lack of virtue - it's the nature of the job to find exactly what the directors/producers want.

tl:dr:
It was a definite fail, but I'm glad they resolved it quickly. It's being handled much better than the Airbender fail. I hope the woman gets the job if she still wants it. I still wonder where the blame lies, and wonder how fandom will react. And I'm sad that this will taint the movie in my mind when I go to watch it.

I hope that made some sense.

Dude. He is not in the army. He does not have to follow the orders of his superiors no matter what he thinks. There is no excuse for what he did. If the production company wonks are a bunch of lying sacks of shit and are throwing him under the bus, that's unfortunate for everyone involved.

But I really, really do not see why it's relevant who REALLY is to blame. We could argue back and forth and arrive at the conclusion that no one really is to blame, all these poor little white people involved are just victims of being raised in a society that makes it impossible not to be racist, but that would just be bullshit and I'm pretty sure you know it.

Why is blame so important to you in this situation? I really don't get it. What matters to me here is that this person said and did really offensive racist shit; whether he ~really meant it or not~, I really don't give a fuck; he's not my friend.

Not to drive by your conversation, but I think it's important to know whether he was told this or did this of his own accord because he should have gotten fired either way, but the people who told him to do this (which, in my opinion, is very likely in the industry) should get fired too. It's common in the face of scandal to make someone the big sacrificial goat, but that's how a lot of people get away with things like this, since once the person directly responsible is dealt with, people stop asking further.

This is a good point, except a production company can't really fire itself from a film project, I don't think. *headscratch*

What do Hobbits look like? Well:
"They are (or were) a little people.... [they] have no beards.... They are inclined to be fat in the stomach; they dress in bright colors, chiefly green and yellow; wear no shoes, because their feet grow natural leathery soles and thick warm brown hair like the stuff on their heads (which is curly); have long clever brown fingers..."

At least, that's what they look like at the beginning of The Hobbit. I believe that one might be forgiven for thinking the Bagginses a little paler than usual, as the text goes on to imagine a faerie ancestor for their line, and fae in English art are usually whitey white-pants. Perhaps the casting agent thought the brownness of their fingers to be tobacco stains?

Possibly. (I remember the description from the books, too.) I see no further ethnicity indicators. The only reason people might assign a "racial" identity to Hobbits is the generally British/European bent of the books in general. Even the name "Shire" derives from town names in the British isles. But still, the whole thing is mythical. Taken at face value, there is no reason to reject any adult who meets the height requirements.

Later, I believe we learn that of the three groups of Hobbits, one is lighter-skinned, one is darker-skinned, and the third somewhere in the middle. I don't remember which is which, and Google Books is not giving me the love on Fellowship. I have in my mind that Rosie Cotton is described as very fair-skinned, but again, can't check it.

Anyway, it would seem that you could have a pretty good range of possible Hobbit. That being said, given that most people's idea of what a Hobbit looks like will be limited to Wood, Astin, Monaghan and whats-his-face, it would not be hard to imagine they were all white. Was there complaint in the fandom when the Hobbits were made all white in the LOTR movies?

I have no idea if people complained at the time about the ethnicity of the main cast. Even Sam's blondness seemed too 'fair' to me by the description, but at the same time, Sean Astin was so perfect for the role.

I guess in my mind, I kinda see the Shire as being something tucked into the hills of the British isles in the ages before intercontinental travel was common. Isolated population of northern Europe.

*sigh*
idk.

Meeting height requirements too? I thought they could deal with that in the studio with a little bit of trickery, just like they did in the first movie? Joking of course! :)

I noticed that the height requirements were "under 5'7" for men, under 5'2" for women." I wonder why a 5'3" female would be rejected.

When I met Sean Astin at Dragon*Con, I asked him to stand up so I could compare our heights (I was dressed as Frodo at the time). He's 5'7". I felt plenty short to be a Hobbit standing next to one of the originals... and I'm 5'1". So... 5'3" doesn't seem so unreasonable.

*shrugs*

Well I am a small guy of 5 ft 7, so perhaps I should head on over to New Zealand to audition! I need to start a collection for my airfare though!

Oh, believe me, I thought about it myself! I have my own Hobbit-worthy attire!

thanks for putting this together! it's the avatar situation all over again...

No prob - just trying to keep fellow fen informed. (Apparently, articles and commentary on this situation are popping up all over the web, so you can find a lot of people's reactions to it.)

I'm really torn right now. I just want the Hobbit to be a fun movie that I can go enjoy, and now, no matter what else happens, it's going to be tainted with this incident. But we'd be socially irresponsible if we ignored it. It's just... for the love of Gimli's beard, WHY??? You'd think casting directors would get it by now, but apparently not.

It's due to as you say the english/british background of the books. I don't see any black elves, or such. That they want light skin does seem abit odd, when the hobbits are farmers, so should have more sun tanned skin. The elves should be extremely light skinned as they are not out in the sun as much. The casting agent isn't being racist, he isn't saying he only wants WHITE people, he is stating light skin, because there is an asthetic that is trying to be created for the movie. Just as they have a height restriction for the hobbit roles, it's another restriction. Such is the movie industry. For background workers where your basically part of the set, the decoration your judged on your asthetics for the scene, if your a main actor your still judged on your apperance but also your acting skills.

Are there any actors of colour in the Lord of the Rings films? And to wade into controversy - homogoneous groups tend to share the same skin colour. As noted across the planet before rapid movement of people began from one location to another. The hobbits - for better or for worse - have been established as very fair-skinned - look at the five principle hobbit actors. No dark faces at Bilbo Baggins farewell birthday party that I could see.
So two points I guess, movie canon had already chosen to establish racially homogenous groupings (elves, rangers, riders of rohan) and they are all fair-skinned. (Does the book canon do the same? I can't remember but I suspect it does.)
And how would racially mixed populations have come about?

I suspect the casting director was acting on an unspoken assumption shared by all the crew and in that sense he has been hung out to dry. They might have done better to stand up for their unspoken position than to simply fire him.

Are there any actors of colour in the Lord of the Rings films?

Yes, but their characters are all on the side of evil. You could blame JRRT for that, but I think the movie producers should have changed it, just as they expanded Arwen's role.

That was me above, I forgot sign in.

No problem, re: not signing in. It happens.

From my understanding, Tolkien structured the world loosely around old Europe. The "mercenaries from the south" as portrayed in the movie (from the books) were mercenary soldiers who would hire out to whoever was willing to pay - not specifically FOR either side, just simply for hire. The "south" in this case was the Mediterranean and North African regions. The "north" held no other major populations. The story was built on Celtic, Norse, and other old-European cultures. So... I see the story as being a myth, yes, but designed within the setting of a real place and time.

And really, Sauron, Sauroman, Wormtongue, and all those... were based in the same European-type populations.

I wish they hadn't taken liberties with the stupid love story stuff with Arwen, too, but if there was wiggle room there, they certainly could have made some very basic modifications in casting.

I'm at work, so I can't look up the exact descriptions used in the books for the southern armies, but I seem to recall that the language used was rather racist. I'll check when I get home.

I wish they hadn't taken liberties with the stupid love story stuff with Arwen, too, but if there was wiggle room there, they certainly could have made some very basic modifications in casting.

Yes, I agree. The purist in me would also have preferred that no deviations from the books were made, but if they tried to reduce the sexism, why not the racism? I was very put off by their decision to use actors of colour to play the Uruk-hai.

I'm sure that the language in the books had more than just hints of racism. Look at when it was written. I won't put Tolkien on any sort of PC Pedestal. He created a marvelous fantasy world, and was a brilliant linguist, but he was no saint.

But yeah, they could have removed some of the old-fashioned attitudes without diminishing the spirit of the story itself.

As for the actors playing the Uruk-hai... I mostly saw a metric fuck-ton of makeup. I actually was thinking of them the same way that I'd see an alien on Star Trek and see the alien species, not a human ethnicity. I get lost in the makeup, costumes, and the fiction when I'm watching a movie. I admit that this is a fail on my part - I didn't even recognize how they'd cast the actors for the Orcs. I just saw makeup and prosthetics. I should have been more aware.

From my knowledge, the whole thing was set to mirror Northern Europe. As you said, isolated populations in the days before intercontinental travel was common... would tend to have a homogeneous appearance.

At the same time, it could be easily argued that it's fantasy, and anything within the strictest description of the books is fair game. As copied/pasted by

featherynscale above:
[Hobbits] are (or were) a little people.... [they] have no beards.... They are inclined to be fat in the stomach; they dress in bright colors, chiefly green and yellow; wear no shoes, because their feet grow natural leathery soles and thick warm brown hair like the stuff on their heads (which is curly); have long clever brown fingers..."

That doesn't strictly preclude the possibility of darker skin tones.

Frankly, it's ridiculous that they've cast so many Very Well Known Hobbits using incredibly thin actors. Having hobbits of varied skin tone is a minuscule deviation from the culture of the stories in comparison.

That said, I have no problem with casting directors endeavoring to hire actors who fit the look intended by the source material. In most Hollywood depictions of Native Americans, it sure would be nice if actual Native Americans were used (a rarity), etc. And of course there was The Last Airbender's casting travesties.

That said, was the man told to hire this way by his superiors?

Of COURSE he was.

Either he was told that directly, or he was hired based upon success with other crews using the same casting methodology, which amounts to the same thing except getting his instructions from an entire fucked-up culture instead of one fuckpuppet-the-Highest. Of course he was told to do it, and of course he's a convenient scapegoat. The entertainment industry is MADE of appearance-based -isms. Made of them.

Ack! That was something I noticed, too. I always imagined Hobbits as being round, chubby little things. Except for Samwise, they were all so skinny!!! That's not the impression I got from the books.

The Last Airbender casting was ludicrous. It was obviously set in an Asian culture, and the actors should have been Asian. The fact that they cast Caucasians... so stupid on so many levels.

I see the characters of LotR as being cast from a old-European culture (we do know that's how Tolkien designed it), so Caucasian makes sense... but for extras in a crowd? More flexibility.

But yeah, I think there's a fair chance that they used this casting guy as a scapegoat. I CAN'T know for sure... but... *sigh*.

But yes, Hollywood hiring is all about looks - everything from height to weight to race. Hell, in the world of costuming, we have a concept called "Costuming to Body Type." The best competition costumes are pieces and characters that YOU RESEMBLE. As much as it would be AWESOME to play a Klingon... look at me. I'm 5'1". I'd make a better Ferengi. I'd love to cosplay as an Elf from LotR, but I'm short with curly hair, so I'd be an idiot not to play a Hobbit. And in Star Trek, even if I wanted to costume as Uhura because she's awesome and badass... I just can't. Sometimes... if we're playing with specific characters... there are limitations. Hollywood is even more strict.

Yeah, I'm with you on the Last Airbender thing, wtf was UP with that? Then again, that probably was hardly the worst part of that movie, but I digress.

I feel kind of bad for the casting guy, and I don't think it's fair that they fire him for that. That was kind of ridiculous on their part...

And as it has been pointed out, the LotR characters are old-European culture types, and so caucasian does make sense. And if the main Hobbitses are going to be caucasian, it would probably be best if none of the extras really stuck out, right? So, I guess as long as no one sticks out, whatever should go, only the main characters should "stick out."

And by the way Mijan, you make an excellent Hobbit. Just putting that out there.

For the record, Re: Airbender - I've never seen the anime, I never watched the movie, and ALL I know about it is what was reported on my flist from the racefail wank. Just sayin'.

If the casting guy wasn't given any racial restrictions by the producers who hired him to cast the extras, and then imposed race restrictions on the applicants, then it would be fair to fire him. However, I feel if he WAS told to go for a certain look, and then they fired him for PR and to save face, then that wasn't fair to him. Because, yes, Hollywood casting is ALWAYS specific, and race is often a criteria for roles. If someone makes a Barbie movie, you can bet the lead actress will not be Asian, Hispanic, or black. If someone makes a movie about Harriet Tubman, you can bet the lead actress will not be Caucasian. (Oddly, if someone makes a movie about Jesus, the lead actor will probably not be Jewish... but whatever.) Anyway, Hollywood DOES discriminate by race when it casts certain roles. That's nothing new, and nobody expects otherwise.

I can see why, in a large crowd, it wouldn't be such a big deal to have people of varying skin tone. At the same time, the Hobbit communities are genetically isolated, and would have been fairly monochromatic, as most societies were in the distant past, when travel was much more difficult, and genetic groupings stayed more isolated. (But hey, I studied population genetics, so my analysis is probably too scientific here.)

Anyway, I see both reasons for wiggle room in casting extras, reasons why this WAS handled well, and reasons why this was NOT handled well. I'm just really honestly curious to know how fandom will react to it. There are bound to be a large range of reactions.

And... YAY HOBBIT! I do love being a Hobbit. And... I think I would fit the criteria. 5'1", naturally curly brown hair... if only I was in New Zealand!!!

My suspicions are that he was indeed instructed to do so, but he did this in a manner that was not subtle enough. When things like this come to light, someone has to be publicly hanged for it to appease the rage of the masses. This doesn't excuse what he did, but it seems to me that case is very likely, as it's common. It's most unfortunate that it is also likely that many people got away with it in this situation.

I actually used to do this, have an agent and everything. It didn't go anywhere, but I got a good taste of the industry. Looking for a specific race is not actually uncommon. There are tons of auditions looking for a "Chinese male, Caucasian female" etc. Tolkien's books were a bit racist, and there are many wonderful essays that I've read arguing that they were also highly propagandist. But even if you're trying to meet those requirements, and are trying to cast for a specific race you don't SAY it, unless it's a specific book about race. In this case, though, I sincerely don't see why they couldn't have Hobbits with darker skin. Having a Chinese or African American Hobbit may not have made sense, but someone with darker skin does.

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Casting fail incident in The Hobbit.

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